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 Post subject: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:39 am 
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Goomba
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well my head is full of fuck right now. i'm gonna take this opportunity to vent about some personal problems i've been dealing with lately, which (of course) involves a girl.

i've had a legitimate interest in this girl for a long time now, i met her through my cousin and shortly after we started talking on a daily basis. when i finally got the guts to tell her that i'd like to take her out sometime, i realized that she lumped me into the dreaded muck hole of despair that we men know as the friend zone. regardless, i decided to stay friends with her (i figured having her in my life as a friend was the next best thing to having her as a girlfriend). this might have been a mistake on my part, but i stuck with it and gave her support when she needed it, and continued to talk to her daily.

fast forward to about 2 weeks ago, she tells me that she's "seeing" someone (i honestly never understood why people use that term, it's so fucking childish). i always figured that this would happen, and i actually felt relieved and like i could finally be content with just being a friend. i decided to move on while keeping her as a friend, even though there's really no one for me to move on to.

about 2 days after she told me this, she tells me that she's extremely upset. when i asked she said she didnt want to talk about it, so i told her that i understood that and that i'd try my best to distract her from whatever was bothering her and try to cheer her up. over the next couple days i talked to her constantly (as much as i could through texts and online messages, since she lives about a half hour drive from me). she slowly started coming out of the funk she was in and started getting back to her normal self. i was happy that i could help her out. finally she told me the reason she had been so upset, the guy she was "seeing" had also been "seeing" another girl. as sorry as i felt for her, a part of me was happy that she got a dose of reality (imo she's always had this fairy tale-esque vision of what a relationship/boyfriend should be like), however i did feel sympathy for her.

and then came today. up until today i tried to keep my nose out of this situation as much as possible; i didnt want to know anything about this kid she was dating, as it was none of my business. we started talking and eventually i started to ask some questions that i was curious about. these werent questions about the kid, but more-so their very short lived "relationship". i asked about how long they knew each other before they started seeing each other (about a month), and started trying to explain to her what exactly i perceive relationships to be and how they work. after some lengthy dialogue, she tells me that they were "seeing" each other for about 3 months before she told me about him. this is when the shit hit the fan for me.

i suddenly felt completely pissed off that she hadn't told me sooner about him. as far as i was concerned, we're really good friends. this shouldnt have been something she hid from me for so long. to save time and explanation of how this conversation went, i'll just copy/paste it here for you to read/dissect.

me: why did you wait so long to tell me?

her: knew that was coming...
well at first i really didnt tell anyone
told your cousin like 2 weeks before you

me: was i the last person to know about it?

her: def not
but i cant remember who were the last lol

me: right

her: but it wasnt like i wasnt keep it from only you
i didnt tell most pple
i guess at first there wasnt much to tell and i didnt wanna jinx things

me: you're not really answering my question though

her: well i guess after i told your cousin i could have told you
but i guess i wasnt sure if it was gonna become a serious thing and if it wasnt i didnt want you to be hurt
like unnecessarily

me: i've told you how i feel, i dont care. you made a decision and that's fine. but still, i thought we were good enough friends that we wouldnt be keeping secrets about stuff like that.

her: im really sorry!!!
we are good friends
i guess i was trying to spear your feelings

me: well dont


at this point i told her i was going and left the conversation, i was royally pissed off and hurt. someone who i'd honestly considered to be one of my closest friends for the past year kept a very important detail about her life secret from me for over 3 months. she proceeded to send me several texts apologizing and reassuring me that i wasnt the last person to know (she suddenly recalled everyone who didnt know before i did, which i find a bit shady). i just told her that i needed to clear my head and think about a few things and that i'd talk to her later, which she reluctantly accepted.

i've only really been about to talk to my sister about this since it happened (neither blame or dfraz have been online). she confessed to me that she doesnt like this girl because she thinks she's playing with my emotions and using me as a back up friend for when her regular friends arent around. i cant argue with that, this girl and i rarely ever hang out in person, and there have been maybe one or two times where we actually just hung out with each other (as opposed to hanging out with various other people at the same time). she advised me to back off and not talk to this girl so much, and that might make her realize what she's giving up if she loses me.

i honestly dont know what to do, i'm still very hurt about this, but at the same time i'm not sure if i should be. a couple hours later this girl sends me this pic via fb message:

http://www.coolfreeimages.net/images/so ... rry_02.jpg

so it looks like she doesnt want to lose me as a friend, but at the same time i've been wondering to what degree she wants our friendship to be; whether she wants me as a legitimate friend or just as that guy she texts and talks to online but never actually makes the effort to see in person (i've tried setting up hang outs for us numerous times, only to be told every time that she already has plans. she's made zero effort to attempt to hang out with me in real life). i feel like i need some decent advice on the subject, so i decided to take my problem and pour it out here. hopefully some of you took the time to read this lengthy post (sorry about that btw). please feel free to be honest, if i'm in the wrong i want to know it (i'm still very confused as to how i should feel and react).

thank you for taking the time to read this.

tl;dr girl problems, what do i do?

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:56 am 
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From what you describe she doesn't sound like she's worth the effort, real friends will make the effort to hang out.
I've been in a similar situation with a girl, talk for ages online all the time and whatever, eventually I worked up the courage to tell her how I felt she tried to friendzone me, I told her that wasn't good enough for me and stopped speaking to her. I don't feel any worse not having her as a friend because now that I think about it, she wasn't really that good of a friend anyway.
They try and keep us around for when they can't talk to their "real" friends. Hope that helps man.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:33 am 
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i read one important sentence, but you won't like it.

Quote:
someone who i'd honestly considered to be one of my closest friends for the past year kept a very important detail about her life secret from me for over 3 months.


stop being such a poof. you want at her snatch still.

i never tell people when i'm dating someone. i want to really get to know before i'll let any of my friends know them. its a perfectly natural thing. i'd hate to introduce someone to friends only to later find out they are a fucking disaster.

if you're going to be mad; be mad at yourself. you know how this shit works. stop acting like you don't because it doesn't suit you at the moment. if you're content with friendship why do you care who she might be banging? you're not banging her so its not like you have herp or babies to watch out for. catching some other dude's herp would be so not cool.

what you are for her is a girlfriend. someone she can bitch to and giggle a little bit. you may ask yourself why she's with some random douche instead of perfectly perfect you. but what you fail to realize is that just like men objectify women; women objectify men. what you are for her is the inability to cope with the consequences of her own decisions. a vent.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:39 am 
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Knowing the situation a bit more I can kind of add some elements that everyone else may not be able to. Since she is friends with your cousin, i have a good feeling that's exactly where she get's these ideas from. You're cousin does the same thing, she keeps people around for when her preferred friends aren't. That seems to by why every party of hers we go to there are a few new people and a few less that have been regular attendees.

It's the way most girls are. It's the "friend zone" "on the hook" bullshit. However, I think it's a necessary evil. I think your sister was correct in saying that you need to basically stop talking to her (I've mentioned this numerous times before as well). Unfortunately, it's not going to change. As much as you may want it to, it just won't, it never does. Move on because she isn't a good friend anyway. The only benefit seems to be that she stays up late so you have someone to talk to since blame and myself tend to keep halfway normal hours now.

The reason I saw it's a necessary evil is that I think everyone experiences something like this at least once, even if they never realize it. It's part of the progression in the dating world. It will teach you to not get too attached in someone you're interested in and will help you basically not give a shit. Once you get to that state you won't over think things or be overly nice or helpful which is what puts your balls right in their purse to carry around and control you with.

tldr; stop talking to her, buy a fleshlight.


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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:19 pm 
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S1eepy wrote:
i read one important sentence, but you won't like it.

Quote:
someone who i'd honestly considered to be one of my closest friends for the past year kept a very important detail about her life secret from me for over 3 months.


stop being such a poof. you want at her snatch still.

i never tell people when i'm dating someone. i want to really get to know before i'll let any of my friends know them. its a perfectly natural thing. i'd hate to introduce someone to friends only to later find out they are a fucking disaster.

if you're going to be mad; be mad at yourself. you know how this shit works. stop acting like you don't because it doesn't suit you at the moment. if you're content with friendship why do you care who she might be banging? you're not banging her so its not like you have herp or babies to watch out for. catching some other dude's herp would be so not cool.

what you are for her is a girlfriend. someone she can bitch to and giggle a little bit. you may ask yourself why she's with some random douche instead of perfectly perfect you. but what you fail to realize is that just like men objectify women; women objectify men. what you are for her is the inability to cope with the consequences of her own decisions. a vent.


Nicely put... A succinct version of what I would say hahaha, now I see why Fallout always points to us in terms of women problems... I hate to pile on more as it seems like everyone is on that "fuck that bitch" shit, but seriously. Fuck her.

I'm gonna say some things, they're gonna be pretty blunt. It's all an observation and not 100% fact. It's not gonna be nice, but I think it's what you need to hear. You made your intentions clear and she made her's clear as well. Like S1eepy says you don't want to be just friends, you want a relationship and you said it yourself:

Selfishman wrote:
(i figured having her in my life as a friend was the next best thing to having her as a girlfriend)


Right here you basically pigeonholed yourself to be her honorary girlfriend. If you want to be friends with a girl that's fine, be friends. Treat her EXACTLY like one of your guy friends. If you do anything more for any female friend, it's basically an attempt to get in her pants via pussification (i.e. pity sex) which honestly rarely happens. Girls pretty much have their choice of penises. Trust me a girl will rarely choose a guy who has to work up the courage to ask them out. I'm about to break into a tirade here but long story short, girls want a guy to be the one that initiates the sexual stuff so they don't look like a slut. So walking on eggshells around the subject will rarely get you the goal. (end rant here for now).

You basically acted like you two were in a relationship
Selfishman wrote:
why did you wait so long to tell me?

Dude, she's your friend. She has no obligation to tell you who she's banging or when, or how, or why. Do you care who or when any of your guy friends are banging? I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Yes you told her you had feelings for her, and she declined to reciprocate the feelings. You two are officially still not in a relationship, therefor what happens in her pants is none of your concern, no matter how bad you want to get in there. Trust me I've been there before (hell I vented on the forums about it back in the day about a similar situation (although I was dating the girl at the time), that was my wakeup call as well).

She told you she was trying to "Spear" your feelings, and from what I can see she was. People don't really act all like they've been betrayed when they hear someone is dating other people unless feelings are involved, which she was well aware of. She knew you'd be hurt especially with your attachment to her. And she didn't want to lose her shoulder to cry on.

When people first start seeing each other, they really aren't too sure about the future, they don't go public for a good amount of time, it took my current GF three months to tell her closest friends we were dating. She didn't want to deal with that uncertainty and the guilt of hurting you at the same time (I know the logic is a little twisted). But long story short again you over reacted to her dating someone else. If you really wanted to be just friends, it wouldn't matter. She knew you wanted more even though you say you don't mind being just friends.

I mean would you be
Selfishman wrote:
...royally pissed off and hurt.
if Blame or Dfraz didn't tell you they were seeing some girl for the past three months of their lives?

Don't get me wrong, it's ok to feel hurt, betrayed, angry, and any other feeling that comes up. I'm serious, 100% Fine. It's normal but realize where the feelings are coming from. You wanted more, you thought by using this strategy: being there for her, being a "friend", keeping her happy; would get you the girl and it failed. You're not angry that she didn't tell you, you're angry she decided to bang Douche McCuntbag, while talking to you, keeping you waiting patiently.

"If you always do what you've done you'll always get what you gotten." I hate quoting professional motivators but this is exactly true. If I were you just cut off the friendship, call her out on BS but don't try to get emotional, which I know will be hard considering the attachments. Try to do it over the phone so she gets the tone of your voice, try to go for the stern, disappointed father voice. She wasn't a good friend. Real friends make plans to hang out, they don't keep postponing or making other plans not including their friends. You can tell her anything you want but just cut off the friendship.

In the grand scheme of things she was deceiving you, she had no interest in dating you but kept talking to you everyday and occupied a good chunk of your time. She got to play relationship without any of the titles or responsibilities. On that end she is in the wrong, but at the same time, you are equally at fault for letting it happen.

Know this, she will lash out at you as you're ending the friendship, don't react to it, seriously, just be as indifferent as possible and just give her that one last call, end the friendship over the phone and block her on all forms of contact (facebook, messengers, phones, myspace or whatever) and just start talking to other girls. You'll figure it out from there man.

Edit:
Also from personal experience and being a keen observer for years I'll tell you this one fact. If a girl is a shitty friend she's gonna be an exponentially shitty girlfriend.

Any problems that exist prior to having a relationship are only going to be magnified when people come together. She may be cute but seriously, she's not worth the trouble. You'll find someone better, trust me on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:15 pm 
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As someone who's done the whole "well, if I can't be with her, I can still be her friend" thing, and suffered the consequences thereof, I can vouch for Blackman. It doesn't really work that way, at least usually, and never in quite the way you expect it to. That mentality comes from trying to cope with the loss of a potential romantic partner by softening the blow, and all it really does is turn it into a series of smaller blows that hit you again and again. Heheh. "Blows".

Anyway.

It is totally possible to be friends with an ex or with a girl you were interested in but did not end up dating. I'm very close friends with a girl I dated for two years, and am also pretty close with a few girls who I have propositioned for dating/sexual shenanigans in the past. The difference there is I'm not treating that friendship as though it's something to have IN PLACE of a romantic/sexual relationship. It's a totally separate entity, and the process involved was not turning one relationship into another, it was the building of an entirely new sort of relationship. As long as you view being friends with someone as "the next best thing", you are going to find yourself getting hurt repeatedly. It's unfair to do to yourself, and honestly it's pretty unfair to do to her, because you're not really being legitimate about how you view your relationship with her. The "friend zone", as unpleasant as it can seem for the male, is actually a sort of sexist concept; it implies that a female friend somehow "owes" you consideration as a sexual/romantic partner, and it actually just indicates that you have trouble viewing female friends as something other than potential partners. Not that this is particularly damning or anything; I think most of us have this issue with attractive women we are friends with. Just saying, you know, the "friend zone" is shitty on BOTH sides, not just yours.

That said, I think we've all been there once or twice (at least I certainly have), and I feel you, dude. It's NOT totally fair of her to be dishonest with you, and you're entitled to be angry, for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:46 pm 
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SelfishMan wrote:
tl;dr girl problems, what do i do?

:cookieshuh: go gay?

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:41 pm 
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gimp wrote:
SelfishMan wrote:
tl;dr girl problems, what do i do?

:cookieshuh: go gay?

This could also work. How much do you enjoy buttsex?

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:39 am 
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yeah, a lot of what you guys said makes a lot of sense. thanks for that, i really do appreciate it. i think i know what i have to do now...

also, i dont think going gay would help, but thanks for the suggestion, haha.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:30 am 
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SelfishMan wrote:
also, i dont think going gay would help, but thanks for the suggestion, haha.

bad advice that works is still advice that works :coookieesssss:

jk, the others have it covered.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Most gay guys I know bitch about their partners at least as much as straight guys.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:30 pm 
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fuck bitches;make money

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:40 am 
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Morte_The_Skull wrote:
gimp wrote:
SelfishMan wrote:
tl;dr girl problems, what do i do?

:cookieshuh: go gay?

This could also work. How much do you enjoy buttsex?

If you're the one giving it, a hole is a hole, right?

...Wait, fuck that. Vaginas are way nicer. I can put my mouth on one and not taste poo.

What were we talking about again?

Oh yeah. Um. Shit, dude, I dunno. Maybe she didn't tell you at first because she knew that you liked her and she friendzoned you, and she knew you'd be upset about it?

Maybe you just need to cut your loses and find someone else, too. Seriously, from being the nice guy in high school and trying to befriend every girl that I secretly wanted to hold hands with, I can tell you that strategy doesn't exactly work. Girls - hell, people in general - tend to make their decisions about you within the first time meeting you. People decide basically from their first impression whether you're fuckable or not. Sucks, but that's the truth. And, I know, it sucks that you don't want to give up on the slim hope of things, because you've now invested a lot of time in this, and it's hard to give up on something that you feel so damn sure about. But, at least you got a good friendship out of it.

Also, if this girl is serious about being your friend, get her to introduce you to her cute friends. Friends help friends get laid. This works two fold: 1. Gets you off her ass, 2. Girls - again, maybe just people in general - love playing match maker. They get to add that story to their arsenal like "oh, yeah. Nameless? Totally met his girlfriend through me. And they're like, totes in love. I...am...a good judge of character. :cookieshmm: "

Anyway, food for thought.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:35 pm 
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women totally fuck their friends, they just don't fuck creepy whiny stalker ones :coookieesssss:

Birds have the right idea. If you want to find a mate, learn to do something beautiful.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:41 pm 
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gimp wrote:
Birds have the right idea. If you want to find a mate, learn to do something beautiful.

Like in How I Met Your Mother. Get that bitch a Smurf penis. Bitches love Smurf penises.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:14 pm 
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SelfishMan wrote:
also, i dont think going gay would help, but thanks for the suggestion, haha.


Don't go gay. It's just as much, if not more drama. Ask any of my 20 gay friends that I've had.

Also, last time I got friend-zoned, I went out and got myself laid. Made her jealous, and pretty much ended the friendship, but I didn't give a fuck at that point because I wasn't wasting my time with someone that didn't give a fuck anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:31 pm 
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LocrianDm wrote:
SelfishMan wrote:
also, i dont think going gay would help, but thanks for the suggestion, haha.


Don't go gay. It's just as much, if not more drama. Ask any of my 20 gay friends that I've had.


lesbians? everyone knows the amount of crazy increases exponentially by the number of women in the relationship. :coookieesssss:

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 Post subject: Re: should i be angry?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:48 pm 
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I know gay men who have quite a bit of drama as well.

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