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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:44 pm 
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So, from some of the other threads, some of you guys sounded interested in trying out more open-source things.

Before I begin, lemme go over some of the pros of this:

Pro 1: Most of this stuff is free (as in price)
Can't beat that!

Pro 2: Most of this stuff is free (as in freedom)
This one's really important to me - you should be able to do whatever you want with your software. I hate artificial restrictions like "You can't use Microsoft Office Student/Teacher edition for non-academic purposes." That's horseshit.

Pro 3: You're making the world a better place
So, this one's also important to me. Just by using the software, you're helping. Try a program and you think it sucks? Complain about it, say why it sucks. People will listen, and it will improve, and other people will benefit - everybody from kinda poor people, big corporations, governments, everybody.

So, here's my personal recommendations for desktop software:

Baby Steps: Things that work in Windows/Mac OS
Web Browser: Firefox, Chromium
This one's easy, and most of you guys are probably using FF already. Google Chrome isn't open-source, it draws from the Chromium project - but it's somewhat more user-friendly than Chromium (ie, built-in Flash/PDF support), so, I say go for it.

Chatting/Messaging: Pidgin, Adium
Pidgin/Adium both use the same core, Adium's basically a dressed-up-for-Mac-OS variant of Pidgin. Again, really easy to get into using these guys, though it seems like more people just use built-in browser instant messaging nowadays (Google Talk, Facebook chat). These guys can connect to those networks, though, which I like - I can do custom notifications, buddy pounces, etc, that I can't do with the web browser stuff.

Photo Manipulation: The GIMP
I really, really like The GIMP. A lot of people don't, though - but what I've noticed is, people that started out with The GIMP prefer it over Photoshop, people that started with Photoshop can't stand The GIMP. They both have pretty different workflows, personally, I really like The GIMP.

Little tidbit: You know those annoying floating panels in The GIMP? Try hitting tab. You're welcome.

Office: LibreOffice
Again, this is kind of like GIMP/Photoshop. I've been using LibreOffice for years, and I'm pretty quick at it. I've never been a power-user of Office, though, so I'm not sure what (if anything) I'm missing out on. Nowadays, I do most document preparation with LaTeX, the only times I fire up LibreOffice is when somebody shoots me a Word/Excel doc.

Basic Text-Editing: Notepad++
A great text-editor with good syntax highlighting, etc. That's abot it.


Now, you can only get so far here before you've gotta straight-up gut your machine of Windows/Mac OS. This is where things get interesting:

Linux!

So, one of the daunting things about Linux is the ridiculous amount of distributions available.

Just a quick tidbit - the way Linux is distributed and packaged is completely different from that of Windows/Mac OS. All the different components of your operating system come from different projects, and they're all spread out all over The Internets. Different groups will gather up these software projects, piece it all together, and release it as a distribution. Everything is modular, and the different distributors come up with different configurations for different purposes.

So, which distribution is right for you?

Personally, I think Linux Mint is one of the better distributions for getting into Linux. It's pretty close to matching the Windows experience, so it's a good first-step. I'm not going to get into the details of what makes it different from Ubuntu/Fedora/Debian/Gentoo/Arch, it's just a good one to try out.

Dual-boot or VM?
So, before you can get into all this, you've gotta install the darn thing.

A lot of people like to try running Linux in a virtual machine, like VirtualBox. There's a few pros to this - there's zero risk of overwriting your Windows install, etc.

But if you can, I say dual-boot it. And try really, really hard to keep from booting into Windows. You just don't get the same experience in a virtual machine.

I'm not going to go over how to install this - Linux Mint makes the whole process really straightforward - download the ISO, boot from CD, follow the instructions.

Fundamental Differences
So, you're sitting in your brand-new Linux environment. There's a few things that will throw you off at first if you're coming from Windows/Mac OS.

Big Difference 1: You no longer hunt the internet for downloads of your programs.
Most open-source projects release their software in source-code form only, and let the different distributions figure out how to get it compiled and running. Wheres in the world of Windows, the software author is also responsible for testing and validating that it all works correctly on the different versions of Windows that are out there.

So, let's say you want to install Firefox -
* Fire up your package manager
* Search for Firefox
* Install

It's really, really easy, and I prefer it over the standard Windows methods. Why?
* Your distribution generally keeps things up-to-date. I don't bother reading up on security updates, etc. I just let my package manager do its thing.
* Your distribution also tests everything - so you don't have to worry about a software update being totally broken. It will work.
* You get all your software in the same place, via the same method. Fire up your package manager, search, install.

Big Difference 2: No more drive letters
Yeah, those are gone now.

So when you plug in a USB drive, insert a DVD, etc - you "mount" the volume.

In Windows, all volumes get mounted to a drive letter (generally). The default is the "C:" drive, usually a DVD drive shows up as the "D:" drive, etc.

Instead, Linux organizes folders like this:
/ #The root directory.
/bin #programs go here
/etc #configuration files go here
/home #User folders go here
/home/john #In my case, this would be my user folder, and it's where I store all my documents
/media #If you plug in external drives/disks, they'll show up under here
/media/MyUSBStick #So if I plugged in a USB stick, it would show up here

So, my default hard disk is mounted at the "root" directory. If I plug in an additional drive, like a USB stick, external HD, etc - it will show up under /media.

Also, any drive can be mounted on any folder, if you really want to do so. I recommend sticking with the default setups, though.

You know how you can use daemon-tools on Windows to mount "virtual cd drives"? You can do the same thing on Linux, out of the box, no special software needed. You just type something like:

mount /home/john/mycd.iso /mnt/iso -o loop

and bam. I just mounted an ISO file to /mnt/iso.

Big Difference 3: You are not a full-time admin
So, in Windows-land, you guys are used to having full access to everything, everwhere.

Not so in Linux - your default user account is not a full-time administrator. And frankly, that's a good thing.

This means you can't write/create/delete files outside of your "home" directory (on my machine, it's /home/john). Everything you do, everything, is in there. Personally, I love it - it helps me keep things pretty organized. There's no searching random parts of my hard drive trying to figure out where the hell I saved that document to.

This also means, if somebody managed to use some exploit to try and take over my system, it probably wouldn't get very far. My account can't do stupid shit like, register services, install software, etc.

In Linux, there's one superuser called "root" - that has access to everything. When I need to do something as the root user (like install programs), I temporarily elevate my privelages (usually by entering my password).

Windows has something like this - it has that whole "Hey this programs wants to install software or whatever" dialogue box, which is next-to-useless. You can just hit "sure," and you're done.

Mac OS has the exact same thing Linux has - when you try to install a program, it pops up asking for your password. So, Mac users will be kinda used to that.

Big Difference 4: "But I want iTunes!" Suck my dick you're not getting it
The biggest hurdle to get over is when you want the exact same program from Windows/Mac OS on Linux. In this case, I'm going with iTunes, since a lot of people freak out if they can't get iTunes. Feel free to substitute "iTunes" with whatever Windows program you totally love.

There's media players like iTunes. Heck, I think they're better. There's media players that are totally different from iTunes. But there isn't iTunes.

What winds up happening is, most people get hung-up on comparing other software to iTunes - and they're disappointed because it's different.

But if you go with the attitude of "it's a music player" and concentrate on figuring out what you do and don't like about it (instead of finding out what makes it different from iTunes), you'll probably find something that works great for you. Heck, you'll probably find something better - the day I discovered Music Player Daemon I swore off all other music players forever.

So now I'm in Linux

So, take that list of software I gave earlier - these are the things that are generally Linux-only that I love, love, love.

Photo Management: Digikam
Digikam is awesome - it has face detection, I can tag/rate photos, do some editing, mess with RAW files, export to facebook/flickr/etc. I think it's the best photo-managing program ever.

Video Editing: Kdenlive
I don't have a whole lot of experience editing video. But I was able to really quickly put together that "Spirits n Spirits" video I put up on youtube a while ago, and a friend remarked "this looks a lot like Final Cut." I was able to bring in videos from all sorts of different formats (most of the footage was 480i DV, but one shot was done with an iPhone in 1080p), and the thing handled it all like a champ.

Video Playing: Mplayer, VLC
I. Love. Mplayer. It plays just about everything under the sun, and by default, there's no GUI - all the controls are done via keyboard.

You can get a front-end for it, or you can always install VLC, which should be familiar face from the Windows world.

Music (iTunes-like): Banshee, Rhythmbox
I'll be honest - it's been a long time since I've used either of these players, but they're the ones that are supposed to be pretty iTunes-y.

Music (not iTunes-like): Deadbeef, Audacious
Deadbeef is supposed to be a lot like foobar2000, so if you're a fan of that, you should e able to just jump right in. Audacious is kind of like winamp, so that should be familiar to you, too.

Music (wildly different): mpd w/ front-end
MPD is really, really cool. There's a daemon that does the actual index/playing of files, and you connect to the daemon with a client - the client can be text-based, graphical, web-based, whatever - and that's what you use to control it. The daemon can have multiple outputs, it's. I love it.

File Management: Thunar
This is one people don't think about a lot - in Windows and Mac OS, you don't get to choose your file manager. You just get Windows Explorer or the Finder, that's it.
I'm not sure what the default file manager in Linux Mint is - it might be nautilus? But anyways, I've always been pretty impressed with Thunar. Though lately, I've just been doing most things on the command-line.





I guess that's about it for now, sorry for the wall-o-text.

Are there any other programs you guys are using that you'd like to see alternatives to? I'm specifically addressing, y'know, things you may have pirated in the past (Nero Burning ROM, WinRAR) that, y'know. Let's mend some evil software-pirating ways. :-D

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Napalm Man wrote:
, WinRAR)


winrar is free (you meant winzip right?) but here's 7zip anyway.

i use Audacity for recording off a mic a lot. I tend to find free media applications drop too much quality, or distort too much to sync up, so I use them when I don't have a reason to use my expensive CPU intensive software.

Another alternative to VLC is Media Player Classic

What's wrong with winamp?

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Last edited by gimp on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:10 pm 
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I never use iTunes as an actual media player, but I mean, I have an iPod, and as far as I know there's no "official" other way to actually get songs onto my iPod apart from via iTunes. So that's sort of an issue. It's not so much "I'm used to iTunes and don't want to change" as it is "this device that I own which I'd rather not replace because it is very functional and I already have it only lets me use iTunes".


Beyond that, I like everything I read and hear about Linux, but compatibility seems like it might be an issue. I have a gaming PC; what would be involved in running retail games in a Linux environment? Would they just work out of the box, or what? I seem to recall back in the day games would get separate releases for different OSs, but anymore I don't see that. What exactly is the deal with compatibility for games?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Morte_The_Skull wrote:
Beyond that, I like everything I read and hear about Linux, but compatibility seems like it might be an issue. I have a gaming PC; what would be involved in running retail games in a Linux environment? Would they just work out of the box, or what? I seem to recall back in the day games would get separate releases for different OSs, but anymore I don't see that. What exactly is the deal with compatibility for games?

Compatibility is not an issue if you use different OS partitions for the different things you do. I don't know what it's like now but back in the day everyone I knew with a unix box had a windows partition for games. I've seen linux only game servers for retail games before. I doubt you'd need the partition for much else unless you have a use for fancy software.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but different unix systems would have compatibility issues trying to play PC games with each other wouldn't they Nape?

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Also, Gimp, I can see your dick from my house


Last edited by gimp on Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:35 pm 
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gimp wrote:
Napalm Man wrote:
, WinRAR)


winrar is free (you meant winzip right?) but here's 7zip anyway http://www.7-zip.org/

i use Audacity for recording off a mic a lot. I tend to find free media applications drop too much quality, or distort too much to sync up, so I use them when I don't have a reason to use my expensive CPU intensive software.

What's wrong with winamp?


I'm 99% sure WinRAR is shareware - but yeah, I like 7zip a lot. And that wasn't me asking for an alternative to WinRAR, it was me kind-of starting the conversation of "Hey, what do you guys pirate?" 'cause a lot of people crack WinRAR. But I like that you tossed out 7zip, I use that everywhere. Love it.

Re: winamp - that was in the section titled "So now I'm in Linux" There's no WinAmp for Linux, I was saying "If you like WinAmp, and you go to Linux, you'll probably like Audacious." But also, it's free-as-in-price, but not open source, which is the point of all this - that open source software is the way to go.

Morte_The_Skull wrote:
I never use iTunes as an actual media player, but I mean, I have an iPod, and as far as I know there's no "official" other way to actually get songs onto my iPod apart from via iTunes. So that's sort of an issue. It's not so much "I'm used to iTunes and don't want to change" as it is "this device that I own which I'd rather not replace because it is very functional and I already have it only lets me use iTunes".


Well, no, there's no "official" way to get music onto your iPod without iTunes.

However, there is a program for Linux called gtkpod, which exists solely for managing iPods, and I've had great success with that. Also, I'm sure that some of the other media players work with them - Banshee, Rhythmbox, etc. I recall using those a long time ago.

I put Rockbox on my iPod a while ago, which lets me just use it like a disk drive. It definitely made everything a lot easier (for me).


Morte_The_Skull wrote:
Beyond that, I like everything I read and hear about Linux, but compatibility seems like it might be an issue. I have a gaming PC; what would be involved in running retail games in a Linux environment? Would they just work out of the box, or what? I seem to recall back in the day games would get separate releases for different OSs, but anymore I don't see that. What exactly is the deal with compatibility for games?


Kinda like gimp said - you can dual-boot (So you still keep Windows around if you have to), and you can just reboot into Windows to play games on.

A lot of people have a lot of luck getting games to run with WINE in Linux, though. The WINE project tries to provide a compatability layer so you can run Windows apps in Linux. It's not perfect, but they maintain a pretty good database of software titles with compatability reports, etc - http://appdb.winehq.org/

gimp wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but different unix systems would have compatibility issues trying to play PC games with each other, right Nape?

Do you mean over a network? 'cause the answer to that would be "no." I play the linux versions of games all the time, and have no problem doing networked games with other users of other systems.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:40 pm 
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fair enough. just remembered an ubuntu kid and a redhat kid arguing a few years ago.
Napalm Man wrote:
I play the linux versions of games all the time,


hrm. not exactly a big market - how many games get a linux version?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:47 pm 
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gimp wrote:
fair enough.
Napalm Man wrote:
I play the linux versions of games all the time,


hrm. not exactly a big market - how many games get a linux version?


Yeah no, definitely not. And the answer is "not many."

A good chunk of the indie devs make a linux port, though - if you look at the Humblie Indie Bundles, every game there has a linux port, and there's some on Desura, too.

Apparently, Ubuntu is working with Valve to get Steam and the Source Engine up and running on Linux, so that'll be a big boost once that happens - http://www.examiner.com/article/canonic ... -on-ubuntu

If that happens, you can bet your ass I'll be throwing tons of dollars over at Valve. If they can prove that it's a decent market, other devs will jump onboard.

And like I said - a lot of people get Windows games running in Linux via wine.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:04 pm 
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do developers often make games on unix systems? i know the film industry uses linux a lot on feature films.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:12 pm 
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I guess my issue at that point comes down to, if I've probably got to have an installation of Windows running on my computer anyway for some of my games, why bother installing Linux at all? Like, Linux is cool because it's a free, open-source alternative, and I don't have to give my money to/pirate Windows...except if I need to dual boot, then that is all kind of negated. Like, if something is supposed to be my alternative for Windows, but I still need to purchase Windows to do what I want with it, then what reason would I have not to just use that purchase of windows as my OS?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:00 pm 
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gimp wrote:
do developers often make games on unix systems? i know the film industry uses linux a lot on feature films.


Historically, no - but it's growing. There's been a decent demand for good-quality linux games. I'm not sure when/if we'll see the AAA titles (Call of Duty, Modern Warfare) appear on Linux systems, but it seems like more and more devs are embracing it. Again - Steam/Source Engine is coming to Linux, it sounds like.

I definitely think Linux games is a growing market. and if there's one thing business-y people love to circlejerk over, it's the term "growth."

Morte_The_Skull wrote:
I guess my issue at that point comes down to, if I've probably got to have an installation of Windows running on my computer anyway for some of my games, why bother installing Linux at all? Like, Linux is cool because it's a free, open-source alternative, and I don't have to give my money to/pirate Windows...except if I need to dual boot, then that is all kind of negated. Like, if something is supposed to be my alternative for Windows, but I still need to purchase Windows to do what I want with it, then what reason would I have not to just use that purchase of windows as my OS?


Lots of reasons!

First of all, as I stated before, you can get a lot of Windows games running under Linux via WINE. I've read a few reports where some games run better in WINE than under Windows. Sometimes if you want to play older games, it's easier to get them working in WINE than under current versions of Windows (again - the key word is sometimes).

There's a decent chance you wouldn't have to keep Windows - but I'd say dual boot for a while until you're sure. I haven't run Windows on my computer for about... five years or so. Don't miss it one bit.

For me, there's two things.

My number one reason is the idealism/ethical thing -- I think using and promoting open source is the right thing to do. I believe everybody should have a right to high-quality, free software. I don't believe any one vendor should control 90+ percent of computers. I believe we should have actual, real competition in the OS space, since that drives innovation. I also beleive that improving all this software will have real, long-term benefits, especially in helping out underdeveloped nations.

Secondly, it's about choice. I have a ton of distributions to choose from, and within those distributions I can choose from all sorts of software packages.

You wanna start a rock-solid, headless web server that'll handle a crazy amount of web traffic without using a ton of resources? Look at Debian + Nginx web server. Or you could use the Apache web server, or lighttpd. It's your choice.

You wanna start a music studio? Look at something like Ubuntu + Ardour.

You want a bleeding-edge desktop with all sorts of weird, experimental programs? You can try Arch Linux.

You want something that'll boot into a usable desktop and only takes up 12MB? Tiny Core.

That choice thing is a fairly big deal, too - with Windows, you get the Windows desktop - and that's it. And they continually pile on more and more features, until you hit a point where you need a new computer, for no other reason than to upgrade to the newest Windows.

I haven't done many hardware upgrades in the three years I've had my PC. I'm still running an AMD Phenom II X4 2.5Ghz machine with 4GB RAM (it's not like that's total shit or anything, but it's also not exactly the newest beast on the block). I've added more hard drives and added a graphics card, and that's it. And it fucking flies under Linux, because I'm able to say "No, I don't need a desktop with all the whiz-bang features and zoomy windows and shit - just gimme something that draws Windows, cool, thanks Linux." I. Love. It.

Now, I'm running a ridiculously minimal setup - but you have choices covering the entire spectrum.

You want something that draws your windows for you and (literally) nothing else? OpenBox
You want something that gives you a desktop and whiz-bang effects? GNOME
You want something inbetween? XFCE4
You want somethnig just plain weird? Enlightenment.

But addressing the games bit - like I said, what I did initially was dual-boot, and as I learned it, I used Windows less and less, until one day I realized I hadn't booted into it in several months. Then I just deleted it. Lots of games will run under Linux via WINE.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:26 pm 
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Unless I'm able to completely avoid having to dual boot, I don't quite see the ethical argument. Buying a copy of Windows benefits Microsoft just as much if I hardly ever use it as it does if I use it as my primary OS.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Morte_The_Skull wrote:
Unless I'm able to completely avoid having to dual boot, I don't quite see the ethical argument. Buying a copy of Windows benefits Microsoft just as much if I hardly ever use it as it does if I use it as my primary OS.


I think you're mixing up the ethical with the practical.

Like, on the ethical side, I'd say "drop Windows today."

But on the practical side --

I'm pretty sure you could avoid dual booting - eventually.

I think the only way you could avoid dual-booting right-off-the-bat it is if you hadn't already spent years of your life on Windows.

Think of it like cars - when I first learned to drive, I learned on an automatic, right? Later, I learned to drive stick, but my first couple of times, I would stall out, have a rough time, and it was nice knowing I had a backup (the automatic). And eventually, I realized how much more I loved the manual.

In this case, though, I was still in that learning phase of how to drive a car at all. So, the transition from auto -> manual wasn't that rough.

Computers are gonna be a bit different - you've spent, literally, years, growing accostumed to the way Windows works, etc. And I promise you - at first, it's gonna be a bit rough when you break those weird Windows Habits (like being a full-time admin). Things're gonna be different, and you'll want that safety net (temporarily).

Again, it's what I did for a while, until I felt comfortable enough that I could just drop Windows. Then I did.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Napalm Man wrote:
gimp wrote:
do developers often make games on unix systems? i know the film industry uses linux a lot on feature films.


Historically, no - but it's growing. There's been a decent demand for good-quality linux games. I'm not sure when/if we'll see the AAA titles (Call of Duty, Modern Warfare) appear on Linux systems, but it seems like more and more devs are embracing it. Again - Steam/Source Engine is coming to Linux, it sounds like.

I definitely think Linux games is a growing market. and if there's one thing business-y people love to circlejerk over, it's the term "growth."


i wasn't talking about the unix game market, i was talking about PC and console games being made on linux or bespoke OS's. a lot of post-production companies in the film industry use linux for most of their computers. It saves money.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:31 pm 
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gimp wrote:
Napalm Man wrote:
gimp wrote:
do developers often make games on unix systems? i know the film industry uses linux a lot on feature films.


Historically, no - but it's growing. There's been a decent demand for good-quality linux games. I'm not sure when/if we'll see the AAA titles (Call of Duty, Modern Warfare) appear on Linux systems, but it seems like more and more devs are embracing it. Again - Steam/Source Engine is coming to Linux, it sounds like.

I definitely think Linux games is a growing market. and if there's one thing business-y people love to circlejerk over, it's the term "growth."


i wasn't talking about the unix game market, i was talking about PC and console games being made on linux or bespoke OS's. a lot of post-production companies in the film industry use linux for most of their computers. It saves money.


oh!

I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised of Unix/Linux is used for things like, rendering cutscenes and such.

I know if you target your game for XBLA, you're probably developing on Windows.

I'm pretty sure id does some dev with Linux. Otherwise, I'm thinking it's mostly Windows-based.

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 5:20 pm 
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Why I am not running Linux right now:

1.) Playing video games some times is impossible. Most games are DIRECTLY made for DX9-11. Terraria was impossible to get running on *nix.
2.) The GIMP doesn't handle RAWs (.cr2 for me) anywhere near as well as Photoshop does. Also, bridge is a very nice program (I know some hate it, but I love it) and helps me out a lot with previewing and organization.

If you can help me with those two issues, then I'll be making use of it again. (In fact, I am getting an itch to install it again...)

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:16 am 
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Sanctusorium wrote:
Why I am not running Linux right now:

1.) Playing video games some times is impossible. Most games are DIRECTLY made for DX9-11. Terraria was impossible to get running on *nix.
2.) The GIMP doesn't handle RAWs (.cr2 for me) anywhere near as well as Photoshop does. Also, bridge is a very nice program (I know some hate it, but I love it) and helps me out a lot with previewing and organization.

If you can help me with those two issues, then I'll be making use of it again. (In fact, I am getting an itch to install it again...)


As far as games, the best bets are to check WineHQ's AppDB, sometimes people will post what they had to do to get it running. Otherwise, it might be worth looking at buying CrossOver - http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxgames/ - Technically not open src, but, y'know.

I'm not super big into photography, but I've been using DigiKam to manage my photos. For dealing with RAWs, you could try darktable - http://www.darktable.org/

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:15 pm 
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I do all my dev on Linux (IntelliJ ftw) and run my life on Mac.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:45 am 
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I'm in my last term at school. So one my last classes is capstone, 5 others and myself are tasked with creating a network from scratch. Of course it is primarily based off of Windows server 08, but there is some Linux sprinkled in and I'm the guy they pick to setup and configure it. We are using the Linux machine for a FTP server. I chose Ubuntu 12.04 I generally like Ubuntu over Fedora or CentOS.

I need some help, ill continue to look on the web too. I have VSFTPD installed, I just need help configuring it. The project calls for a secure FTP server so of course Anonymous is off. I thought that I could just create a Chroot list for each user that has a user account, then they would be able to connect to the server and then any uploads would go to their Home directories. That is not working. If you feel up to helping Napalm it would be very appreciated. I can send you a copy of the VSFTPD.conf file if you think it will help

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Hm. Secure FTP, or FTP Secure -- they're subtly different.

SFTP is really just SSH acting like FTP - you just install openssh, and wham-bam you're done. Literally, done.

FTPS is a whole different beast - it's FTP wrapped up in TLS/SSL encryption, and it's a total pain in the ass.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:34 pm 
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It worked good, I used SFTP/SSH. Setting up the .conf file was much easier than VSFTPD.

I need more help.

If you were running your own business why would you use Linux on a server in addition to Windows servers?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Spidey wrote:
It worked good, I used SFTP/SSH. Setting up the .conf file was much easier than VSFTPD.

I need more help.

If you were running your own business why would you use Linux on a server in addition to Windows servers?


Well, it depends on the business - best tool for the job and all that.

If you're stuck with a bunch of Windows software for your business, use Windows. If your vendor only supports Windows, then you should use Windows.

I'd use Linux for a couple of reasons - some philisophical, some not.

Personally, I find that Linux has the best software for running web servers. Apache and Nginx are nothing short of amazing. And a lot of web software is written with Linux/Unix in mind (PHP and all that). If you wanna use .NET stuff, Windows w/ IIS is the way to go. And there are a few benefits to all that (especially if your have some app that's real Windows-centric). But, I'm a PHP/Python/Perl fan, which integrate with Apache and Nginx really nicely.

It's very, very easy to try new, cutting-edge things in a Linux environment. You wanna try some new crazy NoSQL database or something? You can easily get it up-and-running.

But, and this is the beauty of a Linux server - you can also go with the stable route. You want something that'll never fucking crash? Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Done. Welcome to the world of crazy amounts of uptime.

Also, licenses. You've gotta get licensing all correct with a Windows envronment. And it's alway stupid shit like, there's software where the license is based on the number of cores/processors you have. I dunno if the Windows OS license operates that way, but I know some software licenses do.

With Linux, if you want, you could buy zero licenses. Get something like Debian, roll it out, and you can be really DIY about it. Or, if you want, you could get a Red Hat subscription - and yeah, you'll have to deal with licensing, but I beileve it's generally cheaper than Windows.

Another benefit to running a few Linux servers - the admins. Windows admins are a dime a dozen, and most of them are really, really terrible. I mean God-awful. They know Windows, but that's it.

Linux admins? Holy shit. They know their stuff (especially if they're RHEL certified) and will usually run circles around the Windows admins. Because in addition to knowing Linux, they usually know a hell of a lot more about various application protocols, networking, all that stuff. All our Linux admins can easily hop onto a Cisco router and do all sorts of crazy shit that just blows my mind.

I mean, example: most of our developers are Windows guys. And we had some change coming up, where, I dunno, there was going to be a slight change to how an XML file was getting generated or something, I'm not even sure. Point is, this process would generate a lot of files. And my team asked how they were going to check that all the needed data was there.

Their response? "Oh man, well, it's a lot of files, so, I, I would just look at a couple, and make sure they look right. Just, y'know, open it in Notepad or something, make sure it looks good. I mean, this is gonna spit out a LOT of files. It's a waste of time to check them all."

Um. What? I wrote a quick script to take the old data, take the new data, parse it real fast, and make sure the data matched up correctly. It took all of two seconds to check on like, 1000+ files, and we found a bunch of strange, obscure errors, that we were able to get sorted out before any of this went into our production systems.

Of course, this varies - I've met some awesome Windows admins, and some terrible Linux ones. But, for the most part, the Linux admins are far superior at managing systems than their Windows counterparts. I'd rather have a Linux guy manage my Windows shit than a Windows guy manage my Windows shit.

The Linux admins pride themselves on being lazy. A Windows admin will be like "Yeah, you gotta do this process a thousand times, using a GUI, and it takes forever, but, y'know, just grind it out" whereas a Linux admin will say "Fuck. That. Lemme write a script for it." And then, they write the script. And they've just saved your company dozens of man-hours.

So, your question is about a heterogenous environment - why toss a linux server in with a bunch of Windows ones? Well, it depends:

Is all of your shit Windows already, and all you have are Windows guys? Stick with Windows.

Is one of your Windows guys really a Linux guy, working Windows 'cause he has to? Get him a Linux box.

It's really all about 1) what software you're running 2) what kind of people you've got working for you.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:36 pm 
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This has helped me immensely

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:12 pm 
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Spidey wrote:
This has helped me immensely


I hope I didn't just write an essay for you :P

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 am 
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Nah, But I will use some of your talking points in my Capstone presentation next week.

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