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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:37 am 
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so as the thread topic name suggests, i'm in the middle of an anxiety attack. i figured i might as well vent on here about what i'm feeling. if nothing else it'll give me something to take my mind off of it, and if you're curious about it or know someone who suffers from an anxiety/panic disorder and always wondered what the mindset of that person was like, maybe this can give you a bit of insight. if anyone else on this forum suffers from anxiety or panic disorder please feel free to share stories and possible remedies for when you have an attack.

i am on medication so full on attacks only happen on occasion, but when they come they're fierce. to me personally, it doesn't really feel like people understand how someone who's having an attack feels. i've talked to family about it, and their advice is always to "just stop it", to which i reply "oh, of course! why did i never think of that?! thank you, i'm all better now!!! :coookieesssss: ".

the truth is most of us have had anxiety or panic attacks in our lives, you just haven't realized it because the situation you were in qualified for the whole "fight or flight" response to kick in. if you're in a situation like that (e.g. you're about to get into a fight, you're walking down a dark ally at night and think someone's following you, etc.) your heart rate speeds up, you feel dread, you have the urge to run away, you might even break out into a cold sweat or have trouble breathing. it's a necessary reaction to an urgent situation. the problem with people who have anxiety or panic disorder is that we get this response randomly, when it's not needed for the situation we're in (i was just sitting on my couch when my current attack started).

the effects i feel from each and every attack vary. this time around i feel extremely disassociated from reality, it's almost as if i'm in a dream state right now. i'm also having difficulty concentrating (it's taking a lot of effort to even type this out in a way i think will be understandable). on top of that, my stomach feels bloated, my hands feel weak, i have a tension headache (it's this feeling of pressure almost as if you're wearing a hat that's too small), and some chest pain which is being caused by costochondritis (you can google that one, i dont have the energy to explain it). even though this sucks, i prefer it to my other attacks where my heart is racing and i have this feeling of impending doom. when i have those i need to be around people or talk to someone (my reasoning being that if something does happen to me, like if i pass out or have a heart attack or whatever other terrible fate i can come up with, someone will be able to get help for me).

the worst part about this attack is the disassociation i'm having. my meds are kicking in so i'm slowly coming out of it, but i basically feel like i'm having a dream right now (i probably sound like a broken record). everything's kind of glazed over, and it's difficult to concentrate on one thing for a long period of time. every so often i'll stretch and move around a bit to get blood pumping, but it's temporary relief.

again, my immediate family is of absolutely no help during these attacks, to the point that i've stopped bringing them up when they happen because it only gets me more stressed out when they say "you need to stop doing this" and "you've got to get over it". it's like i have faulty wiring in my brain, and this switch keeps randomly turning on and takes a while to finally turn back off.

i feel like i've vented enough about this by now, it did help a little bit. i'm gonna try to just relax until the medication takes full effect. again, if you have anxiety or panic disorder please post about it here, i'm constantly looking for people to relate to on this subject.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:31 am 
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i used to have major anxiety issues when i was younger. i still get a flare up from time to time, but its not something that even happens every year.

but you're not going to like what i have to say.

i've learned to mitigate attacks and manage things on my own.
it means doing work. it means not being able to say "there's something wrong with me. a pill can fix it."
your parents are essentially right, but if i were to ask them about it; i'm sure they'd have zero fucking clue as to why they were.
its about being able to control your own faculties; mastery of mind and emotional states.
now mind you that what i have to say may or may not be applicable if these attacks are a side-effect of another medication you are taking.

this is my general routine when it happens to me:
i ride it out until the thoughts start kicking in.
once i start getting negative thoughts: i treat undesired thoughts as if they were something somebody else was telling me.
i don't believe they are mind you, but i treat them like that for the time because you have one thing spot on.
it is about fight or flight. so when the thoughts kick in: i fight. i treat them as opposition.
anger is a very easy to understand emotion; easily called. so i use that against the anxiety.
i interrupt the negative with challenges. i tell the imagined speaker of the thoughts to shut up; say(internal voice) how they contradict themselves.
after repeated interruptions the state of anxiety begins to wane as i drift towards something more manageable: the anger i'd summoned as a defense.
from there; calming myself back down is simple.

it's not as easy and straight forward as taking a pill for it, but in the long run it leaves you more in control and less dependent on a product.
after a while; when you feel the onset of an attack you'll be able to consciously deny it from even happening. not because you'll have to make yourself angry as a response, but rather that you'll know it is something you can control.

i also used to get really debilitating migraines. using a similar methodology i learned how to stop them from happening. again; one might onset once every few years, but when it does i remember how i was able to deny them in the first place; then it's under control in a few minutes. these are where i really started to figure out how the mind works. you see; i couldn't take a pill to get rid of them. they were 9+ hour sessions of excruciating pain and heightened senses. the only thing i was able to do while one was in full swing was to count the number of times i'd puked from the pain alone. possibly questioning just how much bile the body can produce.

in case you were wondering: the high score was 42 times over a span of ten hours.

then one day; one started to onset when i had a day full of events planned. this made me furious; i wasn't about to let myself spend that day writhing in pain. my thoughts were along the lines of "fuck you migraine. i deny you existence." since that day i've never been caused pain by one again.

mind over matter is a very real thing. until you actually practice it on yourself: it can seem far-fetched. you'd be absolutely stunned by just how far it extends. i used to get sick every few months. one day i felt myself coming down with a cold. i didn't really want to be sick, so i thought to myself "no. i've had enough of this. i don't need to experience being sick anymore." i kept my focus on that idea for a while; eventually i started feeling better. i haven't been sick since then. which is almost 3 years now. the hardest part about that is never being able to use "i'm sick/not feeling well." as an excuse anymore. we(people), very literally, make ourselves get sick.

no bull shit. it might look like i say a lot of crazy things, but i never used to think these kinds of things were possible. if i were talking to myself from 7 years ago: i'd be getting laughed at and told i didn't know what science was. my experiences are what caused that change; they made me question a lot of things i never thought i would about the view of the world we all get presented with.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:03 am 
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thanks for reading as well as for the tips, i agree with you on a lot of those topics. i was going without medication for a while, but after my mother passed away last year the attacks became much more frequent and uncontrollable, which is when i started on medication (only one though, a low dose of xanax. my doctor also recommended anti-depressants but no way in hell would i fuck around with that shit). as time goes on i've been getting better at identifying when an attack is coming on and have even been able to stop them, and i've also been identifying what triggers an attack (caffeine is a big one, if i have one cup of coffee i'm on edge for hours). this attack was a case of not paying attention to what exactly i was eating/drinking during the day, as well as a good amount of stress from the past week (my uncle passed away last week and the wake is tomorrow, funeral is wednesday. i'm definitely not looking forward to going to another funeral for a family member only a little over a year after my mother's.).

i've been looking into transcendental meditation as a way of learning to get better control over my mind, but any information i dig up online is less techniques and more "give us money and we'll tell you what to do". gonna do a bit more digging and see what i can come up with, and i'll definitely use the advice you gave.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:14 am 
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SelfishMan wrote:
i've been looking into transcendental meditation as a way of learning to get better control over my mind


the more i look into any type of meditation the more i keep thinking "what a load of bullshit".

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:16 am 
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transcendental meditation is really just another way of saying "sit still; don't think."

i'll get more into the topic in a bit; going to smoke a cig to get some thoughts together.

edit:
traumas can definitely do a lot to take things away from your control. thought the silver lining is that they do present a ripe opportunity for soul searching. i might have worded things a little different if i'd known that's what you've been dealing with. i'll leave the feel better comments to others who are far better at it than i am.

so; on to meditation and the absolute absurdity that it appears to be:
everyone is going to tell you something totally different is happening, though there are a few common schools of thought. i'll try to explain what goes on as best i can while trying to avoid as many assumptions about why it is the case as i can.

like you, i started out thinking it was a load of shit. science doesn't have shit to say about it so it can't be so. one day i decided that i might as well give it an honest effort. if i'm going to denounce something, i decided, i should have at least tried it. . . young foolish me was unbelievably wrong.

meditation is essentially a processes of disengaging yourself from your senses. most techniques start out the same: pick a spot, get comfortable, close your eyes, and try your damnedest to prevent thoughts from coming across your mind. far easier said than done. oh, and breathing, slow and methodical (also focus related). try to breathe in for a four count, then out for a four count. some will say in through the nose and out through the mouth. i haven't found this to actually make any difference.

where things start to vary has to do with whatever it is that any technique wants you to focus on. you kinda just have to let yourself go with it. there's no room for snickers and thoughts of "oh, this is stupid". lots of things can't work unless you can suspend your disbelief; meditation is one of them. that's not saying believe anything you hear. just to temporarily switch off reflexive dismissal. you can always tell yourself you can decide later.

as i see meditation: what happens is you disengage yourself from sensory input so that you can interact with your will in a more tangible way. it has tons to do with attention and focus. and almost paradoxically: focusing on something without paying attention to it.

i was trying to dig up the first one i tried. i didn't want to be all gay and start chanting in my basement, so i'd found a guided one that did the chanting for me and threw on some headphones while sitting in a recliner. sitting here now; i'm not entirely sure how important the chanting actually was, but the one thing i can say for sure that it did do was give me something to focus on; which made it easier to stop verbal thoughts.

i'll try to describe it as best i can.

first off; you'll want to get into a relaxed state. do the basic relax/clear mind thing until you notice you feel a little different. i liken it a little to slipping on a fleece onezie.

Image
you may recognize the hooey in this picture as chakras. you also may not. the important bit is that you look at the locations.

the basic idea was to start at the bottom: and try to visualize/feel a disc (mine were flat/horizontal; not vertical as the picture suggests). then start rotating the disc clockwise; as your intent is on this; as you draw in breath imagine the breath extending down to the disc; that the breath is aiding in its rotation. once you feel like its up to speed, move up to the next highest and begin to spin it counter-clockwise in the same way. while you are doing this you should still be able to feel the lower disc spinning. then the third rotating clockwise; continue until you can feel all 7 spinning in alternation.

next: the idea is to run an 'energy' column from bottom to top (still spinning), out the top into a toroidal field and back in the bottom.
Image

listening to this might help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVM8ZYODKng
the real key is repetition; no progression. you want white noise not music.


now; what this meditation is purported to do: i have no clue. i read it when i did it, but i've since forgotten.
but, i can tell you what it definitely will do. moreover it will actually make sense after all the craziness.

doing a complex mental exercise like this is going to help you be better able to assign tasks you wish to automate to your subconscious. each disc you start to spin is an act of conscious decision. in 'bringing it up to speed' you are writing a program for your subconscious to maintain as you move on to consciously spinning the next disc.

why is this important? your subconscious is what contains all of your automated behavioral responses. i find it easier to look at it like background processes in a computer. if you want to change the automated responses: you have to change the programming. understanding how to write programs for your subconscious is the first step to actually digging in there yourself and reprogramming it however you want.

i'll leave it at this for now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:32 am 
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I'm sorry to hear it.
SelfishMan wrote:
the truth is most of us have had anxiety or panic attacks in our lives, you just haven't realized it because the situation you were in qualified for the whole "fight or flight" response to kick in. if you're in a situation like that (e.g. you're about to get into a fight, you're walking down a dark ally at night and think someone's following you, etc.) your heart rate speeds up, you feel dread, you have the urge to run away, you might even break out into a cold sweat or have trouble breathing. it's a necessary reaction to an urgent situation. the problem with people who have anxiety or panic disorder is that we get this response randomly, when it's not needed for the situation we're in (i was just sitting on my couch when my current attack started).

Too right. When you've been run to your limit long enough, you have a few bad days and then you just can't switch out of it. I used to be completely in control, then after a whole lot of shit over the last 2 1/2 years I've just been trying to get by day to day. My gf has trained herself into feeling shit every day thanks to her fucked up family, it's bullshit.

SelfishMan wrote:
the effects i feel from each and every attack vary. this time around i feel extremely disassociated from reality, it's almost as if i'm in a dream state right now. i'm also having difficulty concentrating (it's taking a lot of effort to even type this out in a way i think will be understandable). on top of that, my stomach feels bloated, my hands feel weak, i have a tension headache (it's this feeling of pressure almost as if you're wearing a hat that's too small), and some chest pain which is being caused by costochondritis (you can google that one, i dont have the energy to explain it). even though this sucks, i prefer it to my other attacks where my heart is racing and i have this feeling of impending doom. when i have those i need to be around people or talk to someone (my reasoning being that if something does happen to me, like if i pass out or have a heart attack or whatever other terrible fate i can come up with, someone will be able to get help for me).

the worst part about this attack is the disassociation i'm having. my meds are kicking in so i'm slowly coming out of it, but i basically feel like i'm having a dream right now (i probably sound like a broken record). everything's kind of glazed over, and it's difficult to concentrate on one thing for a long period of time. every so often i'll stretch and move around a bit to get blood pumping, but it's temporary relief.

That sounds like an effect of the meds.
I self-medicate by smoking weed. It doesn't work for everyone but it's a pretty popular choice for the job. Unlike on pharms i rarely feel disassociated. I also think it's important to get out of the house during the day, walk a lot, eat well, and just generally be a healthy human being. The only way I've found to get over a bad patch is to have a heck of a lot of good days in a row, and if there's something causing you anxiety deal with it ASAP. I know that advice sounds pretty hollow, but at least it's concrete. It's always difficult when the people you have to live with don't understand what you're going through.



If you do need someone to talk to who understands what you're going through and won't judge or give unwanted advice, you can talk to me anytime, i'm around most of the day.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:36 pm 
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thanks you guys, i think i'll give the meditation a shot some time in the following days. as for weed, i never really was a fan of it (last time i smoked it actually ended up causing a panic attack), though i do understand that it works for some people.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:30 am 
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I wouldn't dismiss conventional medication altogether. The same way weed works for some people and not others, I think prescription drugs can be useful for some people but not others. Then again, from what you've described it sounds like you didn't have a great experience with them, so perhaps not.

I tend to agree with Sleepy and Gimp that your primary goal should be getting your mind in a state where you can take control and handle yourself better when you feel an attack coming on. If there's activities you do that tend to lessen the symptoms, maybe try to have that available when needed.

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Also...gypsies are cool! But don't piss them off...or they'll make you THINNER!!!! and then j00 diez

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:09 pm 
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I know this won't help, probably, but if you know you are having an anxiety attack, it's kind of easier to talk yourself through it.

A few months back, given the situation I'm living in, I had a series of panic attacks over a week or so about having to deal with my sister and knowing that I was going to get into a huge fight with her in the near future, and also worrying about school and everything. Just, a perfect storm of bullshit looming over me.

Basically, if you know that you're having an anxiety or panic attack, you'll still get the physical symptoms of going through it. For me, I just shivered uncontrollably and my entire body felt numb, like I wasn't in it anymore, and my brain somehow dislocated from the rest of me. But, if you're aware that you're going through it (which you clearly are, since you're posting about it on here), you might be able to talk yourself through it better. Like "Okay, this has happened before, I am still alive after that last time, so I'll be fine after this, too. This is just uncomfortable, and it's bullshit, but I'll live."

Anyway, if you have someone nearby to just hug the fuck out of you and comfort you, that really helps. I actually woke up my girlfriend at the time, and was like "Hey, I'm kind of freaking out, could you just hold me for a bit?" I felt bad doing that, but, it really helped, because the sensation of someone else holding me made me sure that I was still in my own skin, or something. It was fucking weird.

Still, hang in there, man. It really sucks. I know just saying "lol, tell your brain to fuck off" is really retarded advice, and the entire point of an anxiety or panic attack is that you are fucking panicking, so you're not exactly in the right mental state. But, if you can sort of reason your way through it, just take some deep breathes, and then just sleep it off or something, that really helps.

And the things that are causing the anxiety, tackle them all one at a time. Don't go at it all at once, that's just going to refuckify everything.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:54 pm 
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Nameless88 wrote:
"lol, tell your brain to fuck off" is really retarded advice, and the entire point of an anxiety or panic attack is that you are fucking panicking, so you're not exactly in the right mental state.

no. its not. its just not properly elaborated advice. that basically is how anxiety is best mitigated.
a lot of the time the best solutions fall on ears that have no desire to hear it.
in turn you'll be told they are bad solutions.

coincidentally; it seems most people do not desire to be in control.
they want their decisions made for them and their problems to be taken care of by somebody else.
"do it yourself" and "you figure it out" are almost sure-fire ways to make sure somebody won't lift a finger.

i don't get how you can say its retarded advice when you explain doing exactly that.
unless you were being self-deprecating.

Nameless88 wrote:
But, if you're aware that you're going through it (which you clearly are, since you're posting about it on here), you might be able to talk yourself through it better. Like "Okay, this has happened before, I am still alive after that last time, so I'll be fine after this, too. This is just uncomfortable, and it's bullshit, but I'll live."


while personal contact(eh: being held) does help; its a patch. its not going to do anything long term if you're not getting in there and combating your demons yourself. and yeah, a lot of the time it does suck, but there's phat drops and exp as a reward. to me; being dependent on external sources to take care of your internal struggles is a sure fire way to keep yourself under level 10. you might get a little quest exp every now and then, but the daily grind alone is only going to get you to level 20, tops, by the time you kick it. take a look at the populous; i feel it's pretty self-evident. sure a lot of people have big-boy bodies, but most of them are essentially aged children. their intellectual development is still in its infancy.

i'll stop myself here. this is leading into a whole new rant, and most of what i have to say isn't exactly going to help with anxiety.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:06 am 
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Yeah, I know, relying on an outside source to help solve your internal problems is a bad idea. But, at the time, I was panicking, and I really did just need some sort of comfort. It was nice. It didn't exactly help in the long term, but it got me through that one shitty evening.

But, really, just telling someone to "get over it" is pretty bad advice. I mean, if you physically *can* make yourself do that, then by all means, yeah. But, it's more than just that. There's a lot of factors going into it.

But, being able to recognize the symptoms of the problem and try to talk yourself through it really do help, I think.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:25 am 
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Nameless88 wrote:
Yeah, I know, relying on an outside source to help solve your internal problems is a bad idea. But, at the time, I was panicking, and I really did just need some sort of comfort. It was nice. It didn't exactly help in the long term, but it got me through that one shitty evening.

But, really, just telling someone to "get over it" is pretty bad advice. I mean, if you physically *can* make yourself do that, then by all means, yeah. But, it's more than just that. There's a lot of factors going into it.

But, being able to recognize the symptoms of the problem and try to talk yourself through it really do help, I think.

where i'm coming from is that everyone can for most issues. the degree of difficulty varies depending on the particular issue, but it still can be done.

the real problem is most people just find it easier to think that they can't and give up.
i mean; there are extremes like schizophrenia where you're probably going to need a lot of help to get things manageable, but if the individual can't find it in themselves to exert their will against the issue: they're going to stay bat-shit crazy.

fun fact: i've helped a friend get a multiple personality disorder under control without medication.

forgive me for thinking that it is purely lazy to insinuate that anxiety is a battle that people may not be capable of overcoming. i know better. its like getting to the third boss and giving up because you think you can't do it. concerning matters of the mind: whether or not you think something can be done is paramount to success. harder than the issues themselves is convincing yourself that what you think isn't possible is achievable.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:50 am 
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The thing is, too, you're not just dealing with your brain telling you that things are bad, you're dealing with chemical imbalances and stuff, too.

I mean, if you think you can get over something, then you can sometimes do the whole Mind over Matter thing and actually do it. But, there's a lot more at work, and if your brain chemistry is against you, it's kind of like trying to run a race with both of your legs broken.

This is coming from a person who's never had any major mental disorders, and only taken like 2 psychology classes as electives because he thought it was a neat subject. So, I'm not exactly an expert. Just saying from my knowledge, simply saying "get over it" is kind of shitty advice, because it's not really that simple.

If you have the will power to do that, though, and it actually works for you, that's cool. But, that probably won't work for everyone.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:20 am 
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your psychology instructors are wrong. i've dealt with this shit more times than i can count. those twats are just reading somebody else's words out of a text. what i am saying comes entirely from first hand experience.

i've gone over the chemical imbalance thing before.
100% proven fact: smiling triggers serotonin release in the brain. serotonin is a natural anti-depressant.
that's why instead of taking a pill and developing a neuro-chemical dependency on whatever the fuck you are putting into your body you should just find something to be happy about. if you don't have anything around you; then get off your ass, stop wallowing, and go find something to be happy about. it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out.

though: it does take a brain surgeon to figure out how to make a pill to alleviate a condition while fostering a chemical dependance on the medication.

if you have a "chemical imbalance" look at your diet. just about everything you ingest fucks with your chemical levels. the idea that you need a pill or medication to address these things is an incredibly destructive(and profitable) misnomer. there is an incredible amount people can do to take these things into their own hands. people don't because:
A) they are told they can't by some retard
B) they don't want to put in the effort and just want someone else to make it 'better' for them.
C) they are addicted to pity and claim inability as a crutch to foster sympathy(oddly; i view this behavior as a legitimate mental disorder).
D) all of the above

it's not like chemical levels in the brain are affixed and per-determined from birth. they are constantly in flux. an imbalance three years ago nay no longer be present because you've since started eating more oranges: increasing your vitamin C and citric acid intake. these levels are always changing. in everybody.
when someone has to use "that's just the way it is" as a justification or explanation: they are speaking of things they haven't ever thought about.

i've dealt with depression; i've dealt with generalized anxiety disorder; i've dealt with bi-polar disorder; i've dealt with ADD; i've dealt with sensory integration disorder; i've dealt with dyslexia. these are all conditions i'd been diagnosed with by people who didn't have a fucking clue what they were talking about. i've ironed them all out without any medication.

moving on to other people: 1 multiple personality, everyone gets depressed, 3 schizophrenics, 2 cutters(self-mutilation), 5 bi-polar, half the planet qualifies for an ADD diagnosis (fun fact: tv gives it to you), 2 hoarders, 2 cases of bad separation anxiety.

i have more experience with this shit than a student will by the time they get their PHD.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:51 am 
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I'm not saying that pills are the only answer. There's like 4 or 5 different schools of psychology, where they trace the blame for disorders back to different things. I can't remember all of them, but biology is just one answer and one treatment.

I haven't been back in my psych books in a long time, but I know what you're saying is also valid. I'm just saying that it isn't the only answer on how to solve the problem, and it's a little shortsighted to say that it's the only sound response.

Like, for example, I know that just exercising and eating different can fix depression. Just going for a walk outside can actually make depression less intense.

But, if the case is bad enough, you might need more than one type of treatment to fix it, you know? Just having a positive attitude and working on fixing things yourself might not be enough, you might need to talk to a therapist too or something. Hell, just talking to other people and getting a fresh perspective on it all might help a lot, too.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:13 am 
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Nameless88 wrote:
I'm not saying that pills are the only answer. There's like 4 or 5 different schools of psychology, where they trace the blame for disorders back to different things. I can't remember all of them, but biology is just one answer and one treatment.

I haven't been back in my psych books in a long time, but I know what you're saying is also valid. I'm just saying that it isn't the only answer on how to solve the problem, and it's a little shortsighted to say that it's the only sound response.


you can throw out your books. what they write in them one year becomes baseless the next.

what i'm talking about is mastery through understanding and conscious control of variable factors both physical and psychological.
i'm afraid that doing the work yourself is the only way to achieve this. a pill can never have this type of effect. that's like popping pain killers because you've convinced yourself that they make the injury heal faster. when in fact what they actually do is deaden the pain signals. if you develop a habit of taking painkillers you actually wind up drastically lowering your tolerance for pain to the point that once tolerable pain can become excruciating while the signals aren't being dampened. yet another example of medication which fosters a dependance.

to go one step further: they made oxycotin; which is a synthetic form of heroin prescribed as a painkiller. so no only are you taking a medication which reduces your pain threshold when not under its effects: it is addictive and gives you incredibly painful withdraws. this basically forces the individual into relapse and makes a handful of people a lot of money. anti-depressants have a similar MO. instead of you pain tolerance; it effects your ability to handle emotional states while not on the medication.

look; the reason why people fall back to all of these crutches is because, to them, and most others, it takes things out of their control. when you don't have control over something it gives you a damn fine excuse to use. it validates and fosters a lack of effort. what should be viewed as a personal trial to overcome and learn from is instead used by people as something to chain themselves to the ground.

don't try to tell me i've only been discussing biology as a solution. i've hit 3-4 different areas in my posts. psychological(eg: ego), biological, emotional, and even spiritual to a degree.
you don't want to look into what i've been saying because it denounces a lot of fluff that's been put into your head concerning a field you haven't practiced in. i've been giving specifics while you sit back and talk about how short-sighted i am when you've read a book once and speak vaguely about how people can't help themselves. all while trying to look like Mr.Fairminded Correctypants. they can. most just don't want to, and that's the ugly truth. try taking off the rose-tinted glasses.

go on; go do your research. then come back and try to say the same things.
this is unfortunately one of those areas where i know i'm right. i'll fly down to florida and give you a hug if you can show me i'm wrong.
truth is: most of the time when i know i'm right; i'm wishing i was wrong. the truth is seldom pretty or amiable. i'm just past the point where i feel compelled to lie to myself about the world so i can feel better about living in it.

Nameless88 wrote:
Like, for example, I know that just exercising and eating different can fix depression. Just going for a walk outside can actually make depression less intense.

But, if the case is bad enough, you might need more than one type of treatment to fix it, you know? Just having a positive attitude and working on fixing things yourself might not be enough, you might need to talk to a therapist too or something. Hell, just talking to other people and getting a fresh perspective on it all might help a lot, too.


i never said these things weren't valid. they all constitute as something an individual has to put effort into.
taking a pill and expecting it to solve your problems, however, is not a long-term solution. its lazy.
if i could go into someone's mind myself i could fix everything for them, but i can't, so it has to be the individual that does it.
to do that the individual has to grow a pair and want to be in control.
how has that not been making sense?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:45 pm 
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I think you're somewhat overly dismissive of prescription medication; none of it is meant to be as simple as "take a pill and expect it to fix all your problems," although yes, some people do attempt to take prescription medication this way and meet failure for the reasons you've described. I think prescription medication can be a very useful supplementary tool to a lot of the other things you're describing, which I mean, I'm not saying you've outright dismissed that or anything, but it does seem like you're viewing prescription drugs as something that's given as a "cure" for mental issues, which isn't the case at all, and obviously if they're treated as such they'll result in failure and dependency.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:43 pm 
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right. but the major problem with many many pharmaceuticals is that the intention of making them isn't to actually have any sort of lasting impact. the manufacturers and developers of these products are a business first and foremost. their intention is making money. 80% of what is out there will only effect whatever ailment it is on a superficial level. this is by design not technical limitations. this is especially evident when you consider that almost every mind/nervous system effecting pharm is going to foster a dependency. anti-biotics actually serve to weaken the immune system with repeated use: turning a hypochondriac into typhoid marry. it is ridiculous that the accepted social stigma is to run to your doctor and get some pills to fix your ails. these should be treated as a last ditch effort; not the first line of defense.

capitalism doesn't allow for these companies to make true cures. it doesn't allow for science to express its most wonderful potential. everything we make and do here is weighed down by profit margins. if a pharm company was to start mass producing true cures: they'd put themselves out of business. the most common cures we have to work with can be found in nature, forgotten and dismissed as quackery. if our business archetypes were different they'd be making different products, and my views on these products would unquestionably be different.

http://www.amazon.com/Curing-Incurable- ... 1401069630

we're programed to view things a certain way all through primary schooling. most of these implanted ideas never really see proper questioning. they are assumptions perpetuated by greed and those willing to take information for granted. this is what forms the bulk of an average american perspective; the way they are taught the world works. they way they are conditioned to behave in response to certain situations; chiefly, being presented with information which is contradictory to the norm. similarly why great minds are never appreciated in their time; instead treated as heretics, outliers, deviants, that which should be denied due course via silence, mockery, baseless attacks, or any other number of means. the true road to progress is walked with a suspension of disbelief; not maintaining an intellectual lockdown on ones own perception.

i've since learned to do my research. i've learned to enjoy it. i've found that far more often than not; the views we are conditioned to be inclined to accept are outright wrong. fabrications to ensure a "healthy" consumer base. this infuriates me beyond all imagining.

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