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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:25 am 
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Also, looking into various business ends that said project would require. I'm estimating that a good run of the game would need about 10 grand to get moving.

Which, if I land this one huge client I'm looking at, you're funded. Just gotta nail this meeting down...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:17 am 
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10k?! Are you sure? When donnie was doing it briefly, we estimated around 2k for 100 games. that didnt include the art, so maybe 2.5k?

regardless, good luck on that meeting!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:28 pm 
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Crashman wrote:
10k?! Are you sure? When donnie was doing it briefly, we estimated around 2k for 100 games. that didnt include the art, so maybe 2.5k?

regardless, good luck on that meeting!


Well yeah, a run of 100 games or so would be about 3k at the most, but then you'd have to sell them at over $30 each to make a profit, and this really doesn't seem like a $40 game. I'm thinking about the "long run" of actually mass producing and selling the game.

The 100 option is the smart initial bet though. I'm just thinking of the second run.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Honestly, at certain points, for a self made game you sometimes have to accept a small loss or the ability to break even on what you put into it. Ideally hoping it comes back in future creations and things.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:09 pm 
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if we can make the game for 15 each and sell em for 30, thats my goal. i'd even settle for 20 to make and 30 to sell.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:50 am 
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saturday I am showing my demo to a local game publisher.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:57 pm 
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Crashman wrote:
saturday I am showing my demo to a local game publisher.

illblamesum1else likes this.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:54 am 
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today is the day and i am incredibly nervous.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:34 pm 
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so far so good

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:41 pm 
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\m/

i want to buy a copy. it sounds amazing. i'm not trying to fluff your balls here. i really want to play it. so hurry the fuck up so that you can take my money.

tell your publisher that this dude on the internet with a retarded person for his avatar says "it's a winner".

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:18 am 
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I wish you could play it, but hopefully soon.

Basically he likes the game a lot. He agrees that the mechanics go well with the theme and the gameplay is solid. The only criticisms he had were based on what will make the game less expensive to make. So changing the dice system a bit is a must because a dice mold is pretty expensive, and had we used my original idea we would need THREE different dice molds. Luckily it still plays the same, just with a few more dice. Trust me, it's practically the same. Also another BRILLIANT idea to cut the cost on card production. So the way he was talking made it sound like they really want to publish this. Basically now we just have to keep talking, he wants his partner to play it. I have to send him component lists and what not and what not. Hopefully it all works out and we can reach a number to make it worth their wild.

As for compensation, we didnt talk a whole lot because they are still pretty new as they've only published two games, but he sounded compliant to my main goals, which is some creative control, my name on the box like "A Richard Garfield game" it would be "A Jessie Moore game", and royalties and stuff. Basically he has to talk to this author friend of his who knows more about the legal issues of paying a developer and stuff.

I mean, I am not worried about the money. Sure I DO want to be paid for my work but I have no crazy notions of it being a means to income and stuff. I just want it to be made so people like you guys can play it and then if i can make enough to have a nice dinner once a month or buy a new game, that'd be bitching too.

They are local guys and the one i met with i've seen all my life at game stores and stuff and he is super nice and it would be awesome to be tied to a local company.

Some neat things that happened when we played it though. This dude who i've never seen was there and he decided to play with us. He had to leave early for a heroclix tournament but through out the game he was enjoying it a lot and when he had to leave he told me how much he liked it and wanted to play again.

Also, someone else asked about the game and Emil (the guy from Attack Dice) said "Oh this is a game developed by Jessie here and we are play testing it!" I don't know why but that felt good to hear someone refer to me as a game developer, especially from someone i dont even know.

So yeah. There still hoops to jump through but i will update as much as I can.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:18 pm 
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i know a few board game circles in the area i'd love to introduce it to. i recall being pretty excited by the rule set. i'm glad you're still chugging along with it.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:27 pm 
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slow and steady wins the race.

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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:41 pm 
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Oh awesome. Somehow I didn't see this thread for quite a while (haven't been in Teh Clevar area for some time). Glad to hear about the progression!

I would love to carry "games by Jessie Moore" at my convention booths. Hell, if they're available, you could even set up a demo at Megacon next year or something and then tell everyone that the game is available in the dealer's room at booth whatever I get.

The little I have played of your game before the updates makes me very excited to play the complete version when it's ready. I'm serious when I say you have a winner in this one for sure.

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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 5:07 pm 
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play tested it with the other guy from Attack Dice Games and he seemed to like it as well. Both the dudes seem quite positive about the game, and on their newsletter, in the upcoming games section there was a listing and my game was scheduled for 2016. Dates are subject to change obviously, but i think this is another positive step.

I need to start thinking like Kevin Smith at least in the words of advice his sister gave him. which was "if you want to be a film maker, BE a film maker. dont just say you want to do it, be it."

So I am a game designer.

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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:11 pm 
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Crashman wrote:
So I am a game designer.


That you certainly are. This is just your first of many. I'm excited for the future ones too.

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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 9:08 am 
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I forgot to mention, this was the newest version of the game, with some new tweaks and stuff.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:26 pm 
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Small update:

I emailed the Attack Dice people as I hadnt heard from them in a month or so, granted I know they were busy with GenCon and what not.

Here is the reply

Sorry for the late reply.

My plate is overflowing these days. GenCon was great. We ran out of a few items by Friday. By the end of the con all we had left was the core games. John and I picked a miniature game called Bushido, but we have yet to do anything with it. We had very little time to look around at GenCon.

Sorry if Tripwire is at a halt with us. Until our leading products start moving we can't move anything else. It's a tough market. Well, I hope everything is well with you. Hopefully we will see you again soon and talk about the future.

Emi

So yeah... kinda frustrating.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:13 am 
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basically: they're broke?

that blows.

i want to help you with this because i seriously believe in this based on what i read. you've got options yet, and unless you signed exclusive manufacture rights with them: what they did was make a promise to you that they weren't in a financial position to keep. if they need more capital to produce your product: that means they didn't have the money to do it when they said they would. I'm not certain if you paid them or not, or what the terms of the deal were, but it may be more effective to self-publish and try to find someone to take your product on their market.

granted; that's a lot more work, but it's also a lot more pay if you're successful. then it leaves you with the framework to self publish additional games, so the second and third will be much easier of a process.

from what it looks like: Attack Dice did the same thing, and realized they could charge people for what they know to do the same. which is all well and fine, but they probably should have hired an accountant before they decided to make any commitments to others.

that's my two cents.

if you want help: i want to help. i'm starting to look forward to another investment. i'd stake some money on you and help optimize the production process.
if that sounds too ambiguous: we'd sit down, figure out what you need for it to be "market ready", how to take care of all of those things, we'd look into copyrighting, fish for prospective markets, and send you(or whoever if you don't want to) to give a demonstration and pitch, if it goes well: they place an order at a decent markup over the manufacture cost for 20+ units: the order is filled is in however long it takes to do the FULL run +2ish weeks for padding. so, why i say FULL run is because you put people who place orders on a "callback" list. so when you manufacture: you're running around 200 units, and have them all sold for a profit before you've sunk any major money into doing it. if you do it right: you can do it without sinking any of your own money into the manufacture process.

*is good strategist*

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:24 pm 
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Well, they have other projects on the horizon too. Basically they want to get THEIR stuff out before someone else's.

I mean, I would love to team up with you. I just dont know HOW. Like, I dont have any money, I dont know where to get the game MADE or even how that works. I dont know where/how to get an artist and what to tell them to do and how to translate that into the game and stuff. The production aspect of the game scares the piss out of me. Then shipping it and stuff again, I dont even.

The whole business side of the game is such a big barrier to me. Maybe its a little bit lazy of me, but I just wanna make the game and then some how have people play it.

As much as making profit sounds enjoyable, I was overjoyed with the fact that they would take care of it and i might get enough from sales to enjoy a nice dinner every couple of months, that and know people were cussing my name when they tripped an alarm and lost all their gadgets.

Also to be clear, There is nothing signed or anything. Essentially it was a verbal agreement. Really all I have to do is tell them if something comes up so they can decide what to do.

I am definitely open to hearing your thoughts though.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:22 am 
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yeah; it's a leap. don't worry though. we can learn.

what it is is basically creating a workflow out of existing services and technologies.
and start up money for this type of thing can be very minimal if you use a callback list for preorders and can get people to commit to an order consistently.

the place where you need the most money is on an artist. fortunately i know a few who are personal friends and very very good at what they do. i could easily get a good price negotiated, and depending on the list i would be willing to put my elbows to work on this. especially with some of the more utility art. these guys blow my socks off though.

i dropped mention to my first pick: he's offline atm, so we'll have to wait to see what he says. how much this will cost depends on the asset list and what he'd be drawing. he might be willing to do it for free or whatever type of delayed pay, but i want to pay him for this. once we get to that point i'm inclined to be willing to put my own money to this. he's that good.

i took a step here because i want him to know the project exists. he draws a lot, so some of the theme will likely express it's self in his own natural drawings and doodles if he's interested.

if you were to construct a prototype: this can be distributed without art to markets, and they might pick it up, and you can use that money to pay the artist too. . . but i feel it's best to pay the artist and be able to show final art with your prototype. this gives the buyer a chance to see the complete image, which is a big selling point in a marketplace. it doesn't have to be printed on finished stock or anything, but having the final art will go a long way. it also makes the preorder window much shorter; meaning you can deliver your product to the buyer way faster. always a plus. makes you look a lot more professional to do business with.

speaking of finished stock: next we need two businesses. a custom plastics place to make the dice, and a printshop to do everything else. there's a print company in town by me: maybe i will investigate them on my next set of days off. there's a possibility of needing a third company for the boxing. these expenses for the use of all of these services constitutes the manufacture cost. we do not pay for this. the buyers do. this is not a trick or a bad thing. it is just the most honest and cost effective way to start something like this without taking out a loan.

but before i can do that: we need to know the total dimensions of which quality stock we need for what. so, it's asset list time. i know i have the parts list in the pm you sent, but we need all of that along with the dimensions of each element. how big are the tiles? character markers? etc. plastic casting goes off of weight, but they're mostly standard parts. new molds are expensive, so pricing for this is easy to get. but for the paper stock: we need a total square footage and digital copies of the art so they can figure out how much ink is needed.

so, once this is all sorted, the art has been commissioned and is mostly done, a semi-polished prototype is constructed using a normal printer and spare cardboard around the house: maybe get a little goofy and personalize it if you have a feeling for the person you're pitching it to's personality. then you make a few more of the same quality to send to other potential buyers.

then there's the process of coming up with a list of where you'd like to try and have this game sold. and also the matter of negotiating distribution rights. i doubt it will be a thing on your first game, but some day a place might make a separate offer for exclusive rights to a product. though extremely rare with board games.

start with specialty stores. any place that does regular table top in store. the online stuff can wait for now. you want word of mouth, and more people will play your game at these places than they will on a web market. you can't beat that kind of free exposure. a lot of these places do demo nights once a week.

if you can arrive with the prototype in person: you'll almost certainly get a name down for your callback list. you tell them you will call them back in two months, and say from that point the production time is the time you got back from the manufacture companies + shipping time + 1-2 weeks of padding. maybe a little more if you get a lot of orders or get more quantity than normal.

so, after this point: you have the number of names we've been able to take down in . . . we'll say two months of effort. if you have, say, friends in SEATTLE *COUGH*COUGH* or CHICAGO; you can send them the prototype to take into the store and give them demo for you. just pick someone with a little bit of charisma to do it. it is a sales pitch after all. just notify the customer that you will have someone stepping in in your stead to give the demonstration.

so; two months of doing that: during the last week you call every name on your list back, collect their money, and put in your order with the companies you've arranged to work with. then if you have a company packaging them: that company gets an invoice of where to ship however many to whoever ordered them. anything in excess you keep as profit: or you can sink a little bit of that into your manufacture and grab some copies to sell yourself if you want. if you had a, say, website you could do special editions and stuff. make funky copies. but you'll want a bit of a following first before that will pay off. on the first run i might just grab one for yourself as a keep sake and keep the rest as profit. maybe a few extras if you want to do the next part. . . which i'm certain you will.

then; when your sellers run out: they place another order and you do it all over again. in the mean time: you basically can keep doing the same thing to get your game in other stores, but if you grabbed those extra copies: you can send those in their place. if you even need to. eventually the reputation can precede it and you might make sales without needing a demo. worth snagging a couple for before that happens though.

then it becomes a publicity game. get people to take a copy to a CON. that sort of thing. get a copy to a friend in games press. exposure exposure exposure. but try to make as much of it being done by "not you" as possible, and try to pay next to nothing for it.

once you hit your interval of say, 200 units, put another run though. maybe invest in a little bit of inventory if you get good feedback from the first round of customers. that way you can sell directly from that so people don't have to wait for a run to buy. and at this point you definitely start self selling off of a website. speaking of which: a website is not a bad idea to sink money from the first run into. nape can help you out there more than i can.

and yeah. . . that's the gist of it. doesn't look so bad now does it?

the only thing i didn't mention was copyright, and you handle that while looking for buyers: you need the final art for it as copyright protects the presentation of an idea. or, you can just not do it. though you eventually run the risk of someone ripping you off and copyrighting their work and trying to sue you. you can defend against it by keeping documentation of your prototype.

so, i dunno, i'm thinking the total cost really just comes down to materials for a couple prototypes, a few hundred for art, and shipping costs for the prototypes. i assume everything will come in under $1,500. plus whatever copyright may costs if you opt in.

you game?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:23 am 
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You make it sound so easy. Yet I am still overwhelmed. Let me think about it, but i will get back to you. Ill pm you my phone number so you can text me and bug me and stuff.

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